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Talk:Vindorhall
Ingolf has ties to Ralios through his grandfather's membership in the Nardain Society. Do we know how far Cragspider was on her way to the demigod fire witch and friend/master of the Black Dragon at this time? I don't recall any dates for her quests from Uz Lore. Jorganos (talk) 11:07, June 21, 2018 (UTC) Cragspider is described as a demigoddess at the Dawn according to the Guide p707. That doesn't preclude her from improving her power within time. Into the Troll Realms (repeating information in the RQ2 trollpak) as "An Ancient Report on Great Trolls" dated 732 ST in which a Yelmalion mentions the appearance of a new race of trolls. The 732 date is also reported in Uz Lore (RQ3 edition) p20. The Black Dragon has dwelt in the mountains and was friendly to trolls since before the Dawn Guide p78 but sidebar p182 of the Guide says "At the end of the Age she confronted one of the True Dragons that came to the Dragonkill. This Black Dragon has been her ally since." The only other date is Geolgin's report which describes her as a High Priestess in 620. However the report also mentions the Empire of the Wyrm Friends rather anachronistically. Vindorhall is definitively in Corolaland according to the Guide p397. It seems from the mention of Ingolf's saga that he returned to Hestvenhall (which has not been named until now) that the Vindori survivors renamed themselves the Hestveni after 976. Metcalph (talk) 11:45, June 21, 2018 (UTC) I am afraid that I forgot the exact event that took place here in the Gbaji Wars, but I was told by Jeff that the Dawn Age event for this place was at least as significant as the EWF events here, but that couldn't be included for space (and relevance) reasons. I sort of regretted that, but it confirmed me in my stance that the Guide wasn't the end of Glorantha scholarship, but a good start. Jorganos (talk) 20:02, June 21, 2018 (UTC) Looking at the saga gloss in History of the Heortling Peoples, Cragspider is described as leading the third army yet only one other troll army is explicitly mentioned - Unalakez. So what was the first army? After Voranstagos slays everybody in New Jardan there is a retaliation in Karadan, of which only Ingolf and Orenfren escaped. Since Voranstagos who was not present and sought revenge and went to Halikiv as a result, the attackers may have been trolls from there and elsewhere. What's interesting is that in that conflict, Ingolf uses the Fire-breathers who appear to act like wyverns or wyrms. This could be the origin of Cragspider's Pillar of Fire which she might have obtained through a heroic challenge. Ergo Cragspider may have attacked Karadan alongside the trolls of Halikiv. Cragspider's subsequent attack in Noramland was an attempt to gain a further power at Ingolf's expense. But she was wounded by the Left Claw and didn't get anything. Now Ingolf is spoken of as having taken refuge in History of the Heortling Peoples at Vindorhall but he was already there in the Unalakez's attack the previous year. So I think he shifted Vindorhall from Delela (magically?) to Noramland which is in its current location - perhaps he summoned dream dragons to shift the hall? Lastly Cragspider's Pillar of Fire attack in 936 ST. This leads to Vindorhall being abandoned and the tribe renaming itself the Hestveni. Metcalph (talk) 12:14, June 21, 2018 (UTC) This. I always wondered why a troll demigoddess would have this ultra-powerful fire power, and it feels like a reprise of the Dragonkill Scorch, even though it clearly predated the Dragonkill. Having Ingolf lose this power to Cragspider makes sense. I am not quite sure I go along with the "acting like wyrms or wyverns". My first association was the family ability of King Kocholang of Lankst (even though he comes from the furthest side of Ralios). This was a conflict with the EWF, so it wouldn't be surprising if one army had been eaten by one of the dragons. Jorganos (talk) 20:29, June 21, 2018 (UTC)